Metagame [SPOILERS] Scarlet & Violet OU Discussion [BAN LIST POST 626]

Status
Not open for further replies.
not an excuse when you’re in the meta discussion thread lol

on another note, it got buried earlier so I’ll ask again. What are y’alls thoughts on offensive Skeledirge in UU/RU? Torch Song/Shadow Ball/Earth Power is some amazing coverage, especially when you get a free +1 every time you click your Fire STAB.
Yo Skeledirge can even make it to OU and actually the most competitive starter in this gen. Lots of ppl have underestimated this mon's true potential on the battlefield. It's ability Unaware completely ignores opponent's stat changes and lots of OU/UU mons depend on stat boosting moves in order for them to shine in the metagame. Torch Song also increases SpA by +1 every time you use it, not mention its 104/100/75 defenses in addition to Slack Off makes Skeledirge a phenomenal mon for both offensive and defense alike which is definitely not something you see everyday.
 
I was tryna say the same sh!t but I couldn't of worded it any better. What I've noticed 2 years ago (as you mentioned above) was that offensive mons were getting banned at the speed of light while defensive/stall mons would just sit there and dominate in competitive. I've prayed for these changes for years and it finally happened.

I do gotta admit tho that Scald being banned wasn't necessary at all and it was fun to use for both offensive and defensive mons alike. Gen 9 offensive mons like Palafin will undoubtedly be banned from OU in the 1st week or so.

In SM/USUM, defensive/stall mons would completely take over the metagame which I became infuriated. In SWSH, I thought that nothing would really change but I was wrong since the offensive and defensive mons would balance each other out which I respected but still wasn't my personal critique of battling. For this generation, SV, Game Freak did the unthinkable and managed to nerf the popular defensive/stall mons along with reducing the PP of their commonly used status moves. They literally made it so offensive mons can bully the living hell outta defensive/stall mons. I never thought this would ever happen.
It will be a queue: As soon as they banish one, another pokemon will be banned along with it. The problem is that the walls are very weakened. After all, Toxic and Knock off are no longer TM(Who doesn't learn by level doesn't use the move.), Scald was removed from learnset of most pokemons(Only volcanion has it now) and has the Recover nerfed. 50% of offensive mons on SV dex at some point will found their niche on OU, if not get overpowered and banned.

Also, i want to comment about Terastal. In my opinion, Terastal is not broken by itself. What makes terastal broken is what I said: Offensives are insanely strong on this Gen and walls are nerfed. I bet terastal would only be problematic for a select group of pokemons, if the walls still had their unnerfed SwSh moves. With these nerfs, what tends to happen is that part (not all) of the walls will end up falling to the Low tiers and there Terastal will be balanced because the defensive power is very high and the offensive is lower.
 
Yo Skeledirge can even make it to OU and actually the most competitive starter in this gen. Lots of ppl have underestimated this mon's true potential on the battlefield. It's ability Unaware completely ignores opponent's stat changes and lots of OU/UU mons depend on stat boosting moves in order for them to shine in the metagame. Torch Song also increases SpA by +1 every time you use it, not mention its 104/100/75 defenses in addition to Slack Off makes Skeledirge a phenomenal mon for both offensive and defense alike which is definitely not something you see everyday.
So it beats the setup mons?
 
I just realized that Spidops is a great pivot, forcing Psychic, Dark and Ghost Pokémon to switch out. It has bad stats, but a great movepool and an interesting hidden ability. I wonder if it will see some usage in OU.

Pivot (Spidops) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Stakeout
Tera Type: Bug
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- First Impression
- Sucker Punch
- U-turn
- Circle Throw / Memento / Counter / Taunt
 
Last edited:
why are we gassing up the 380 bst bug
Well, you can switch the 404 BST bug in whey one of your Pokémon faints and threaten the opponent with Counter+Sucker Punch, Circle Throw or STAB First Impression. When you correctly predict a switch, you can do massive damage with STAB Stakeout U-turn.

252+ Atk Teratype Bug Stakeout Spidops First Impression vs. 248 HP / 156 Def Volcarona: 354-417 (94.9 - 111.7%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
 
Last edited:
The pseudo is an ice type

in a generation where snow adds a 50% defensive boost to ice types

and aurora veil also exists.

it also has access to boosting moves

So with literally no defensive investment, under aurora veil and snow, the new pseudo has >600 defense. And the offensive stats and STAB to delete the few Pokémon that want to switch in.

scald doesn’t exist, burns are rare, most fire types that can check it’s ice stab can’t check EQ or dragon stab. A lot of defensive staples like metal birds and avalugg will tickle it back with their physical attacks..

it’s psychical defensive profile is already better than chomp, it just lacks the key resistances chomp has.. but has STABs + coverage that are arguably more potent.

will be an interesting meta to say the least.
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
The pseudo is an ice type

in a generation where snow adds a 50% defensive boost to ice types

and aurora veil also exists.

it also has access to boosting moves

So with literally no defensive investment, under aurora veil and snow, the new pseudo has >600 defense. And the offensive stats and STAB to delete the few Pokémon that want to switch in.

scald doesn’t exist, burns are rare, most fire types that can check it’s ice stab can’t check EQ or dragon stab. A lot of defensive staples like metal birds and avalugg will tickle it back with their physical attacks..

it’s psychical defensive profile is already better than chomp, it just lacks the key resistances chomp has.. but has STABs + coverage that are arguably more potent.

will be an interesting meta to say the least.
Yache berry bait, weather in general, also knock off + rocks spam, hmmm spam
 
The pseudo is an ice type

in a generation where snow adds a 50% defensive boost to ice types

and aurora veil also exists.

it also has access to boosting moves

So with literally no defensive investment, under aurora veil and snow, the new pseudo has >600 defense. And the offensive stats and STAB to delete the few Pokémon that want to switch in.

scald doesn’t exist, burns are rare, most fire types that can check it’s ice stab can’t check EQ or dragon stab. A lot of defensive staples like metal birds and avalugg will tickle it back with their physical attacks..

it’s psychical defensive profile is already better than chomp, it just lacks the key resistances chomp has.. but has STABs + coverage that are arguably more potent.

will be an interesting meta to say the least.
You can't really say "with no defensive investments" and then spell out two pre requisites in setting up hail AND aurora veil.

That in and of itself is a big investment in teamslot/turns.

That being said, we don't even know how slowking gets access to the new snow pivot move, do we? With slowking being the real viable setter, (as abomasnow is still abomasnow), it seems like the fate of snow rests on the distribution of said move.
 

1LDK

It's never going to get better
is a Top Team Rater
we don't even know how slowking gets access to the new snow pivot move, do we?
He literally throws a powerpoint presentation with a 2010 meme on it in the middle of class (i think by tm), Alolan Ninetales didnt get axed as far as I know, so one is your aurora veil setter, the other is a good special wall (normal AND galarian) with regen and capabilitys to defend himself, put yourself the super sweeper everyone wants to send to ubers and the other 3 mons can be your hazard setter, another attacker and a deffoger or wall idk
 
He literally throws a powerpoint presentation with a 2010 meme on it in the middle of class (i think by tm), Alolan Ninetales didnt get axed as far as I know, so one is your aurora veil setter, the other is a good special wall (normal AND galarian) with regen and capabilitys to defend himself, put yourself the super sweeper everyone wants to send to ubers and the other 3 mons can be your hazard setter, another attacker and a deffoger or wall idk
You are wrong on everything

Ninetales is not in the game

And no such tm exists.

(why would there be a tm for a move when literally one Pokémon can learn it?)
 
as always :eeveehide:



I though ninetales was, then its by probably Level or evolving from Poke to king
please dont hit me with the belt no no
aaaaaa
Just read a bit more carefully rather than role playing in posts.

As I said in the original post, there is no way for slowking to learn the move currently, (probably from some event or a future tutor) as we only datamined the fact that chilling reception is potentially learnable by slowking.
 
played a couple games, realized slow shed tail actually sucks. didn’t realize the move failed below 50% hp before now, or i never would’ve tried orthworm in OU in the first place. even cyclizar is kinda hard to make work properly in OU, though as of right now with all the broken sweepers the move still finds a way to be problematic anyway.

also if we could get a flutter mane quickban by tomorrow morning that would be awesome
 
played a couple games, realized slow shed tail actually sucks. didn’t realize the move failed below 50% hp before now, or i never would’ve tried orthworm in OU in the first place. even cyclizar is kinda hard to make work properly in OU, though as of right now with all the broken sweepers the move still finds a way to be problematic anyway.

also if we could get a flutter mane quickban by tomorrow morning that would be awesome
I don't get why people want to quickban any nonuber Pokémon so quick.

We HAVE 2- 3 years of Scarlet/Violet.

I think it's fine to take a week to test things out like terrastalizing (which seems more interesting than most gimmicks), some borderline (but not overtly) broken mons, etc.

As long as the experience isn't inherently toxic like evasion or moody, what is the harm of testing the new toy for a week or two? It's more fun and variance along the way, and who on Smogon doesn't play Pokémon for fun (... Right?)
 
Terastal (Tera) is fine. Very fun, and certainly not "broken". Upon transforming, a Pokemon gains these effects:
  • The Pokemon's Type becomes its Tera Type. Pokemon with 2 Types become a Pokemon with 1 Type, that Type being its Tera Type. (Example: Charizard with Tera: Fire becomes a pure Fire-Type Pokemon, like Charmander. Charizard with Tera: Dragon becomes a pure Dragon-Type.)
  • The Pokemon keeps all STAB boosts from its original Type(s). This can allow a Pokemon with 2 Types to get STAB boost on 3 Types. (Example: A Charizard with Tera: Grass that has transformed into a pure Grass-Type now gets STAB on its Fire, Flying AND Grass moves.)
ONLY IF a Pokemon Terastals into 1 of its original Types, it gains this additional effect:
  • 33% (1.33x) damage boost to its moves of that Type only. This damage boost stacks with STAB's 50% (1.5x) damage boost, effectively making STAB boost the damage of your moves by 100% (2x). (Example: A Charizard with Tera: Fire gets a 33% damage boost to its Fire moves, in addition to STAB's 50% damage boost. Its Flying moves DO NOT get an additional 33% boost, as the Charizard in this example is not Tera: Flying.)
In my opinion, Terastal is fine. You either get a free Life Orb boost (33%) OR you can change your Pokemon into a completely new Type, which has all sorts of uses (and is the type of fun stuff previously exclusive to Other Metagames). Terastal's 33% boost DOES stack with damage-boosting hold items (effectively letting a Pokemon hold 2 Life Orbs lol), but I'm willing to play a Generation with this mechanic. Sounds fun. Also, Adaptability has been doing the exact same thing for years, and no one has been clamoring for the banning of Crawdaunt/Porygon-Z. Also, there is counterplay. The extreme 2x STAB boost is only for moves of 1 Type, so if you are staring down a Fire-Type that Tera'd into a Fire-Type, maybe go into something that resists (or is immune to) Fire attacks lol.

Anyway, there is a new move called "Tera Blast". To me, this is the only thing that actually needs to be banned. It's Hidden Power...with effectively 120 BP after STAB (lol), and every Pokemon can learn it. Regieleki and Spectrier are the go-to examples of Pokemon who should never have access to Hidden Power-like moves (lol), but in general, every Pokemon should not have access to a 120 BP attack of any Type they desire. You're basically playing Hackmons at that point. The original Hidden Power was only 70/60 BP for a reason.

Name: Tera Blast
Type: Normal
Category: Special
80 Power, 100% Accuracy
Description: If the user has Terastallized, it unleashes energy of its Tera Type. This move inflicts damage using the Attack or Sp. Atk stat—whichever is higher for the user. ("Don't worry, Butterfree would be able to OHKO Heatran with Tera Blast [Ground] even without the unnecessary Photon Geyser effect" ~zakurenai)

Leave Terastal alone lol
 
my bad for being hasty. i guess i just have a personal inclination towards playable metas
I know you are trying to throw shade, but how would you know whether a meta is playable or not when the game hasnt even been out for 70% of the world??

I am going to stop replying to these comments now, don't want to clog/drop the quality of these comments when we should actually be discussing Pokémon and the future meta rather than answering irrelevant questions/what-ifs
 
on another chapter of sh1tmons who got new toys to experiment with in lower tiers:

-honchkrow now learns u-turn, making scarf moxie sets more viable (again, in lower tiers)
 
Adaptability has been doing the exact same thing for years, and no one has been clamoring for the banning of Crawdaunt/Porygon-Z.
I get the feeling if every mon got access to Adaptability, people would start to have problems with it. Also, people absolutely did have a problem with Mega Lucario lol.

Generally I think arguments in favor of Terastal tend to focus mainly on theory and much less on practice (understandable considering the meta has been playable for like, half an hour. But still, where are the calcs showing why Tera isn’t broken?). After having seen discussion on it, thinking about it myself, and playing some games in a meta where it’s legal, I believe that Terastalizing is not inherently broken. In fact, I’ve had a lot of fun trying to build with and around it, and I think the window for innovation with it is massive. However, I also believe that to achieve a meta where both Terastal and Tera Blast could be legal, it will be necessary to ban quite a few mons (upwards of 20). Personally, I would rather not have my only way of playing SV OU be a meta where half of SS OU is banned from the tier. Therefore, I propose a solution. Why not have SV OU, and then SV OU (No Tera)? Both would share the same available Pokemon, but tiering action could be done separately between the two. That way, I can enjoy what seems to be a rather interesting generational gimmick while also being able to use say, Dragapult and Volcarona in OU if I wanted to.
 

RoiDadadou

My heart and actions are utterly unclouded.
is a Pre-Contributor
Chien / Chi Yu / Roaring Moon / Flutter Mane / Iron Valiant are getting the boot waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay before Tera.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top